Your right about the flywheel. Big discussion. You will need an automotive dampner puller. Try to get the type that has a flat end that rotates rather than the "pointed or tapered" style that fits in a hole. When you use it DO NOT WHACK THE PULLER WITH A HAMMER. It will damage internal parts of the engine -- Paul Sayegh ---------------- From: oldmanvmaxd@webtv.net (donald smith) To: V-Max@sayegh.org Subject: Re: Starter Problem Message-ID: <15192-3633791C-523@mailtod-112.iap.bryant.webtv.net> --WebTV-Mail-793856470-321 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Bill, you will also need at least grade 8 bolts, 41/2" long, 8mm. The bolts that come with the pullers are not grade 8. If you can get 8.8's even better. These are considered aircraft quality. There are also grade 10, but you have to go to a place that carries bolts for aircraft to get them. The cheap bolts will stretch and never get the flywheel off. They are not available at a auto parts. Look in the phone book for a speciality fastner place to find the good ones.If you have a friend that has a impact it will make the job alot easier. Also, to make it easier take the middle gear cover off, you will ned a new copper compression washer under the one bolt so you don't have a oil leak. The wires that go to the stator and the pick ups are run underneath the middle gear cover, you will also need a oil pan to catch the small amount of oil that will come out with the covers off. If you have questions,281-584-0395. Don "Old Man" Smith --------------------- From: "Mike Sayers" Subject: Re: Vmax Re: Starter Problem On 25 Oct 98, at 8:37, William Delaune wrote: > Are there any hints about flywheel removal? I remember a rather > frightening thread some times back about bad experiences with this process. I don't know that I would call it frightening, I don't think there's any real danger of damage. It's just firmly stuck. > I'd especially be interested in the tools I need, etc. Also, I'd like an > opinion as to where this process fits on the continuum of "you can do it at > home" to "IMHO it's worth the money to have someone else go through the > hassle." I think it's worth a try yourself, it shouldn't hurt anything and it won't take that long to figure out if you can do it or not. I used a Cal-Van tools #189 balancer puller. It comes with the proper size metric bolts to screw into the flywheel. Also, get a metric bolt (I forget the size but I can find out) to screw into the end of the crankshaft for it to push against. Don't use the original retaining bolt (it has an oil hole and mysterious bent wire thingy in it) but get one the same size. Mine had two problems causing the grinding: The cast iron starter clutch housing was cracked, and all the bolts were loose and fairly beat up. Basic steps: 1) Buy a complete starter clutch and the 3 allen bolts that hold it on. You might also want to get the big starter gear behind the flywheel, it's also part of the clutch mechanism and subject to wear. You may also want gaskets for the middle gear cover & flywheel cover. 2) Remove the middle gear cover. This is unfortunately necessary because the wiring from the alternator goes under it. Unplug the wire by the frame behind the middle gear. 3) Remove the flywheel cover. Careful, the starter idler gears will fall out. It's easy to see how they go back in. Also be careful of the alternator wiring. 4) Remove the retaining bolt & washer from the crankshaft, put in the "pusher" bolt you bought finger tight, install the puller, crank on it. An air impact wrench would be best. Hopefully the flywheel will crack loose. It took about 120 ft-lb on mine IIRC. Careful, the rollers & springs will fall out of the starter clutch. Also make sure you don't lose the woodruff key (stuck in a slot in the crankshaft). 5) Degrease the flywheel, Replace damaged/worn parts (LocTite blue on the clutch bolts, 17 ft-lb, dry 24 hrs), degrease the crankshaft surface, reassemble, make sure the woodruff key is in place. Torque the flywheel retaining bolt to 94 ft-lb, make sure to put the idler gears in place when putting the flywheel cover back on. Bolt sizes (I'm pretty sure on these): Puller bolts x 3: 8mm x 1.25 x at least 85mm, grade 9.8 or higher Clutch bolts x 3: 8mm x 1.25 x 14mm allen head, MUST be grade 12.9 "Pusher" bolt: 12mm x 1.25 x 40-50mm - -Mike Sayers-VMOA #234 & Membership Dir.-DoD #2026-AMA #694085 vmax@tridod.org -Vmax list admin-90 Yamaha Vmax-Smithfield NC ------------------ On 26 Oct 98, at 16:18, William Delaune wrote: > Thanks to all of you guys for all of the information and encouragement. I > think I'll do battle with the clutch replacement. Special thanks to Mike on > the extraordinary detail of his posting. > > Mike, what exactly should I be ordering in terms of parts? You indicated a > "complete starter clutch". Should I order all of the stuff on page D1 of > the parts list (http://fly.hiwaay.net/~drbailey/85MAXPRT.htm)? No, you just maybe need #6 (the large gear), #7 (the complete clutch assembly), and 3 of #11 (the bolts) if you can't get them cheaper somewhere else. The other gears & things don't appear to wear. - -Mike Sayers-VMOA #234 & Membership Dir.-DoD #2026-AMA #694085 vmax@tridod.org -Vmax list admin-90 Yamaha Vmax-Smithfield NC -------------- From: "Mike Sayers" Subject: Re: Vmax Re: Starter Clutch Replacement On 27 Oct 98, at 15:15, William Delaune wrote: > To review what I'll be needing for my starter clutch adventure: > 1) Can-Van tools #189 balancer puller. > 2) Puller bolts (X3) 8mm x 1.25 x at least 85mm, grade 9.8 or higher These come with that model puller. You only need them if the puller you get doesn't come with them. > 3) Clutch bolts (X3) 8mm x 1.25 x 14mm allen head, grade 12.9 > 4) "Pusher" bolt 12mm x 1.25 x 40-50mm > 5) Yamaha 26H-15517-00-00, GEAR, idler 2 176T > 6) Yamaha 11H-15580-00-00, STARTER CLUTCH OUTER ASS'Y > 7) Yamaha (X3) 91316-08014-00, Bolts (Same as #3 above??) Yes, you only need one set of 3 bolts. > 8) Degreaser > 9) LocTite Blue > 10) Normal tools plus torque wrench and impact wrench. > Does this seem like an accurate list of what will be needed to complete the > job? I'd like to avoid being ALMOST able to finish except for ... > Bill D. > ---------------------- From: "Mike Sayers" Subject: Vmax Clunka clunka clunka A couple of weeks ago, someone posted a question about a Max that was clunk-clunking in the engine at idle. Mine was doing this too. It almost sounded like a bad big-end bearing or something else equally serious. A few people heard it making this noise at Deal's Gap last August. Bill D's bike was doing it too. It wasn't serious. It was the starter clutch! I just replaced the starter clutch last spring, after it started grinding and finally got to the point where it wouldn't start. I got a new clutch assembly, but had to re-use the old damaged bolts and big gear (whose outer bearing surface serves as the clutch drive) because I didn't have them on hand and didn't want to wait for them. I used Loctite blue on the bolts and torqued to the recommended 17 ft-lbs. The clunking was caused because the bolts loosened up again within a few months, and the cast iron clutch housing was free to twist back & forth on the bolts. This time I used all new parts, applied Loctite red (the kind you supposedly can't get off without heating it), and torqued the bolts to 23 ft-lb. Hopefully they will stay put this time. When I started it last night, no more clunka-clunka. I will be updating the starter clutch page with updated instructions and more pictures when I get time. - -Mike Sayers-VMOA #234 & Membership Dir.-DoD #2026-AMA #694085 vmax@tridod.org -Vmax list admin-90 Yamaha Vmax-Smithfield NC Beware of greasy corner where lurk skid demon. Cease twist, approach slowly, round cautiously, resume twist gradually.