From: Lee Roberts Subject: Vmax Emulators w/ Progressives Bruno, I also have emulators with the Progressive springs. You wrote: >Has anyone installed Gold Valve Emulators with progressive springs... >one of the fork I get a clicking sound and its seems softer then the >fork that is not clicking. Does anyone have a good setup procedure for >combining the two together do I need some extra part such as slides, >glides or bushings? As far as the clicking goes, I would make sure that the Damping-Rod is tightened down correctly. My progressive spring were so long as to eliminate all other movement. (Right Bert?) You shouldn't need any extra slides etc. if your springs are the extra-longs like Bert got for me. Having said that, I am still running with a 5cm (that's 2" for you non-metric folks) PVC spacer on the tops of mine for a little extra pre-load. I am also running 15 weight fork oil. The difference these emulators make is immediately noticeable. I am going to experiment with 20 w fork oil, but after my trip to Nancy. The emulators are set to 2 1/2 turns in from fully disengaged. I am 6' and weigh 230. This will be my set-up for quite some time, I think. Hope this mess helps. - -Lee- p.s. put BLUE loctite on the threads of the emulators. Blue hold tight against vibration, but will break loose with the force of a tool. (minds out of the gutter!) --------------------- > Thought that I'd pass this on to the group for feedback. Lots has been > written about the emulator installation but who can put together a > top-ten list of tips? I will start. 1. Be sure you have a damping rod holding tool before you start. Max's forks are very tight and often traditional "cheater" methods dont work. 2. Be very careful to De-burr the damping rods after you drill. Especially inside. 3. Dont forget you have to calculate the depth of the emulator into your new preload. 4. When you think everything is clean. Clean it again! 5. Dont let Paul help. Roy ------------------------ I just did mine 2 weeks ago. I did the whole job in a couple of hours and had never touched the front end of a V-Max before. It can be done on the bike!, although it is a lot easier to slide the forkes out of the triple clamps to work on them (10 min. job) I used the Race Tech springs which after riding for a while I am really happy with. I used 1 size softer(.95) than what they typically sell for the V-max due to the firmness complaint I heard. For setting up the sag I threw the stock spacers in, assembled and took a measurement. Added how much they needed to come up and added that measurement to the measurement of the stock spacer. Then I cut the provided spacer material to that exact size. Remember the old saying......measure twice, cut once. For those of you who do not have porting tools to de-bur the inside of the damper rod you can take a 1\4 " rod and cut down the center of one end with a hack saw for about 1\2 inch and insert sandpaper into the slit and wrap a half a dozen times around.....poor man's porting tool that can be used in a drill if you have too. It took another hour to machine a set of adjusters and tap the caps. Race tech offered the best tip on oil level. Put in too much and mark the proper length on a tube and suck out the excess. I of course stole my wifes turkey baster and slid a tube over the end to do that! Good Luck with your installation! You will like the results. - -- Paul Sayegh email paul@sayegh.org --------------------- Date: Wed, 12 Aug 98 22:57:27 PDT From: "Norbert Wank" Subject: Re: Vmax Progressive springs and Race Tech Emulators Here's a compilation of reposts: ">On 12 Jul 98 at 21:44, Leslie and Roy Richards wrote: >> brian doody wrote: >> > >> > I just purchased the gold valve emulators. The instructions say to >> > enlarge the compression holes in the dampening rod, is this really >> > necessary ? >> >> Yes 100% necessary. Be very careful to deburr the rod inside & out once >> you drill it. > >2 things I forgot to mention: > >1) The local machine shop only charged me $5 to drill them for me. I >found it impossible to try to do with a hand drill. > >2) The rod only has two pairs of holes in it. It needs 3 pairs. It's >important the third pair go ABOVE the other two (toward the big end). >Putting them toward the small end would defeat the anti-bottoming >mechanism. > > >-Mike Sayers-90 Yamaha Vmax-Smithfield NC-VMOA Thug #234 >-Vmax list admin-AMA #694085-DoD #2026 vmax@tridod.org Roy on 5/9 wrote: "1. Be sure you have a damping rod holding tool before you start. Max's forks are very tight and often traditional "cheater" methods dont work. 2. Be very careful to De-burr the damping rods after you drill. Especially inside. 3. Dont forget you have to calculate the depth of the emulator into your new preload. 4. When you think everything is clean. Clean it again!" Lee Roberts wrote on 5/6/98: "still running with a 5cm (that's 2" for you non-metric folks) PVC spacer on the tops of mine for a little extra pre-load. I am also running 15 weight fork oil. The difference these emulators make is immediately noticeable. I am going to experiment with 20 w fork oil, but after my trip to Nancy. The emulators are set to 2 1/2 turns in from fully disengaged. I am 6' and weigh 230. This will be my set-up for quite some time, I think. Hope this mess helps. - -Lee- VMOA #187 Elkwoods, Deutschland (Hirschau, Germany) p.s. put BLUE loctite on the threads of the emulators. Blue hold tight against vibration, but will break loose with the force of a tool. (minds out of the gutter!)" ------------------ Roy on 4/22/98:: "> In the instruction i read oil level = 140. > What does that mean? Is that when the fork is compressed fully or when > the fork is pulled in the max. lenght? What is 140, is that mm from the > rim, with or without the springs? > Can somebody help me on this? The fork level is set with no springs in, fork fully collapsed, and yes it is mm from the top. Roy" Roy on 11/6/98: "The damping rod tool that everyone has been looking for can be ordered thru Tucker Rocky. Part # is 15-0634. Any bike shop should be able to get you one. My local bike wiz says this tool has never failed to work for him on any set of forks. Roy" ------------- > From: Norbert Wank > To: vmax@innersource.com > Subject: Re: Emulator guide > Date: Wednesday, July 02, 1997 3:29 AM > > I installed Cartridge Emulators and recommend it highly for anyone who does > not want the expense of a GSX-R1100 front end and custom triple clamps. My > result seem to be (while subjective) very different from Roy, and have to > be put into perspective. Each individual setup is different and must be > tuned to actual weight bike plus rider, riding style, and maybe even > expected average road conditions. Here's my setup, followed by a tuning and > installation guide: > > My current front end looks as follows: > > stock (damping rod type) forks - six holes (5/16") added to dampening rod > as recommended by RaceTech, > > SuperBrace fork brace (available through DW or Comp-A), > > Progressive Fork Springs #1143, > > total spacer length: PVC + aligning spacer + emulator height = 7-3/4" + > 1/4" + 1/2" = 8-1/2" (stock = 9-5/8" with shorter springs), > > preload adjustable - currently 1/2 turn of a M10-1.75, > > emulators setup as recommended for street use with 2 turns spring preload. > > 400ml ELF 20W sythetic fork oil per each tube. > > TUNING > OIL WEIGHT controls rebound damping - oversprung and too much preload on > the fork springs will make the Max bounce back (recognized at sudden stops). > > Once installed, check for proper "SAG" - how far does the inner fork tube > slide into the outer tube from a completely unloaded (fully extended, ie on > centerstand) to a normal riding height position (with rider!!). You only > take advantage of the progressive fork springs if you let 'em work on > either end. Bias them at a sag of 1-1/2". Adjust with fork spring preload > (that's when the set screws of my modified fork end caps come in handy > instead of a hacksaw...). > To much sag: increase preload, or use longer spacers. > To little sag: decrease preload, or shorten spacer. > > At moderate speeds for non racing conditions, the emulator valve preload > has the majority influence on compression damping (that's why additional > holes in the rods allow excess flow, however, CONTROLLED by the gold > valve). The good thing: it's adjustable :-) Although you would need to pull > the forks to get to them, adjustments are done within the first few weeks > and then fixed for a long time (unless you gain weight rapidly...:-( > If you plan for frequent adjustment, you might want to bend a long hook > with sturdy wire, with all metal parts wrapped in soft Scotch tape not to > scratch the inside of the fork tubes. > > TOOLS NEEDED: > [box] 8mm,10mm,12mm,19mm,22mm, 3/8" > {Allen} 4mm,6mm,10mm > impact driver (preferably air-) > 4 hours at a leasurely speed > 1. jack up Max, supporting ie under engine guards, > 2. loosen & remove 2 brake caliper mounting bolts [12mm], > 3. remove caliper, place hard-carton between pads to reduce trouble when > accidentally... > (see Roy's pitfall #3), > 4. loosen brake line guide and remove [8mm] > 5. loosen front axle pinch bolt [12mm] > 6. loosen and remove front axle [19mm], supporting front wheel (ie with > foot) > 7. drop front wheel, save right side spacer, and pull-off speedometer gear, > set aside wheel. > 8. loosen (4) front fender mounting bolts [10mm], remove fender. Watch (4) > washer in fender! > 9. loosen fork brace {SuperBrace, 6mm} and remove > 10. loosen upper triple clamp pinch bolts {6mm} > 11a IF equipped with stock air valves: bleed off air, and remove air valve > (save) > 11b - note to myself: remove setscrews {6mm} > 12. loosen and remove fork caps [22mm] > 13. remove fork spacer and spring. Proceed slowly - dripping oil ! > 14. loosen lower triple clamp pinch bolts {6mm}, SUPPORTING FORK to prevent > slipping! > 15. remove fork and drain oil - be sure to measure oil quantity - never > exceed oil quantity used, especially when swithcing to different springs. > 16. Remove each bottom fork bolt {10mm} with impact driver. > 17. Stuff rag in upper fork tube to prevent damping rod from falling out > when shaking and tapping with rubber mallet. > 18. remove damping rod, rebound spring and clean thoroughly, blow out with > compressed air. > 19. drill six 5/16 holes in three groups of two, each spaced 10mm (1/2"), > starting 10mm above the original compression hole. > 20. deburr and clean thoroughly > 21. loosen nylon secured nut of emulator [3/8] > 22. turn Allen screw counterclockwise until emulator spring is completely > loose (play) > 23. hand tighten screw (imagine a raw egg in your hands) so that washer > just touches spring > 24. start with two full clockwise turns to set preload of emulator spring > {4mm} > 25. Use a droplet of Loctite 242 (blue) when securing screw with > nylon-lined nut > 26.When assembling fork, note that the valve sits square on top of the > damping rod, with the spring facing UP. > 27. add 400ml 20W fork oil, slowly pumping air out of system. > 28. install fork spring, tight windings facing UP (displaces less oil this > way!) > 29.Install washer and spacer (ie Home Depot's PVC 1" inner diameter - PVC > does not rust :-) > 30. Install 2nd washer, end caps, and continue assembling. > > When assembling, first put everything loosely together, then tighten. > RaceTech pointed out, that misaligned fork braces could lead to binding > forks!"