Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 18:54:48 -0700 From: "D.R. McClellan" To: Subject: Re: tires, misc... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > At about 7,500 miles, the front still looks good. It's obvious that > the GTS is a heavy bike that "pushs" a lot on the front end, but > there's still plenty of tread left. I assume that [soft compound] > rear Dunlop and the [older] Azaro front will wear out at about the > same time. The question is, what to put on before taking the bike > onto the track for Keith Code's class (the last weekend in > September)? Well... if you want some serious stick; I had a great time for a short while with a 170/55ME-Z1 Race compound with a 120/70 ME-Z1 front. Don't expect it to last for very long though. After 2000 miles, I thought maybe it would see 5000. Wrong! The second half of the tread left at an incredible rate! I think it was because I was starting to lean way deeper than before. (I like to hang pretty deep, and I was still grinding pegs!) I used to slide the rear before I'd get to the pegs. That just doesn't happen with the race compounds. Summary: Tire Technology is AMAZING! Several of us are having a good time with the 120/70 & 180/55 combination. I strongly recommend the narrower front. It really lightens the steering and improves the flickability. The larger rear is a more subtle improvement. The change in feel due to the wider rear is negligible, but there is a noticeable increase in grip if you're close to the limits. As for real world tire recommendations, The ME-Z1 / ME-Z2 combination is my favorite. Great handling and excellent wear. The BT-57 rear works well with ME-Z1 front. I haven't tried it's companion yet. > > Minor modification: > I cut down the chain guard (not the rear fender) in a line > following the top of the swingarm, from the front of the chain guard > to where it meets the rear fender (about 7"). This allows much > easier access to the rear shock...you can now see the shock, and the > shock wrench gets about another 15~30 degrees of movement, enough to > "click" the shock to the next position without resetting the wrench > into another hole. Very easy mod with a Dremel tool... I'm still pondering this one, as it's 112F in Sacramento today, I've been a little reticent to go out uncover and stare at the bike for any length of time. I assume it helps with the reverse adjustment of the shock. Does this mod increase the mess from the chain at all? > WARNING!! > BAD ASCII ART FOLLOWS. PERSONS WITH DELICATE ARTISTIC SENSIBILITIES > OR ADVANCED EXPERIENCE WITH MECHANICAL DRAWING ARE URGED TO TAKE > APPROPRIATE PRECAUTIONS AGAINST EXPOSURE. > WARNING!! O O O o ME-Z1Race (rear) BT-57 (rear) ME-Z2 (Rear) ME-Z1 (Front) ;^} Sorry, couldn't resist... _ o _ / = > Later, _ (_)==(_) Don (The usual bad ASCII art) ------------------------------------------------------------ From: Robert Wilson Gadzooks!!! I was really pleased when I traded my 170/60 & 130/60 D202's for the same in Michelin x89, big improvement in traction & handling. I just loaded Michelin x90's too early to tell about the traction, but Holy Doodle! talk about lightening the handling, the 120/60 170/60 combination is fabulous. All D202 users be carefull if you switch to another brand & 120/60 front size all in one tire change, you may wet your pants. ------------------------------------------------------------ > Michelin x90's too early to tell about the traction, but Holy Doodle! talk > about lightening the handling, the 120/60 170/60 combination is fabulous. Wait until you try the Bridgestones, you'll fall on your knee in admiration. The V shape profile of there tires make the GTS handle like a new bike. The BT50 wear slower or equivalent to the Michelin X-90. There also the BT57 or the BT56 who are stickier. Richard _- O O ------------------------------------------------------------ Have you found that the Bridgestones like to follow the cracks and lines from pavement joints? People have told me that the tires will pull to follow these cracks. I have the MEZ's(180/55 rear and 120/60 front) on my GTS and the only fault I can find is in the wet traction. Being in the pacific Northwest, Wet traction is a must. Garrett Welch ------------------------------------------------------------ Richard, I agree. I just went from Michelin x90 to Bridgestone BT50's and noticed a big difference. Of course I went from stock size to 120/70 180/55 and i'm sure that made a bigger difference than anything. i do think the bridgestones are stickier. Tom Ruggles ------------------------------------------------------------ As usual, I'm looking forward to my interim set of Metzlers. Every other set, I always seem to go back. You'd think I'd learn. Kevin summed up the BT-57 the other day. Good traction, but makes the bike stand up when braking while leaned. They're OK. I'll give up some tread life for neutral handling every time. My favorite combination for that has been the ME-Z1 front with the ME-Z2 rear. Great wear characteristics and nice handling. The Z2 slides very predictably, which might not indicate the best traction, but is a lot of fun. I would have liked to have tried these with a 120/70 & 170/60 combination. Speaking of fun, the 120/70 ME-Z1 front coupled with a 170/55 ME-Z1Race compound rear was an absolute blast. That rear made it about 3000 miles. During the first 2500 miles, I was really impressed with the tire life, but the last bit really left in a hurry. More $$$/mile than I'm comfortable with, but man, what a ride! I've never cornered so deep! The 120/70 front is the way to go. I'm not too sure about the 180/55. My BT-57 is leaving me cold, but I think part of its problem is its curvature. Now that Metzler is changing it's profiles to be more in line with the other manufacturers, I doubt I'll be happy with their next offerings either. So has anyone tried anything monstrous in the rear? 190/50?? 200??? I'd love to hear your impressions. _ o _ / = > Later, _ (_)==(_) Don --------------------------------------------- > > Have you found that the Bridgestones like to follow the cracks and > lines > > from pavement joints? > Not noticeably. They are radials, so it's not like the old bias plys. It's a trade off. The BT-57s have two parallel grooves that run down the tire centerline which might cause this feeling. In return, it improves wet traction and feel. Like Don McClellan said, the MEZs are great tires and the two sets I've run have lasted around 8K miles each. The problem I've had with the MEZs is that they develop a flat spot in the center after about 2500-3000 miles. Their profile is also more round than the other tires I've used which seems to slow the steering down a bit. The caveat here is that I was running the 130/60 front and not the 120/70. The Macadams were nice tires too, but lasted only 4k miles. Anything, compared to the OEM D202 seems like a god send. Again, my preference is for the BT-57, followed by the MEZ, then the Macadams. At this time, I would stay away from the Azaros as they seem to be very soft and have had many tires replaced under warranty for having the tread split horizontally at the manufactured seam. My friend on his YZF1000 has experienced this himself and I've seen it. It looks as though someone had taken a razor and cut the tread in a perfect horizontal line from one side to the other. Kevin Hawkins // Greensboro, NC --------------------------------- It looks as though someone => had taken a razor and cut the tread in a perfect horizontal line from => one side to the other. I had exactly the same split in mine. Of course, living in NYC, I thought that someone _had_ taken a razor to my tire. I continued running the "cut" tire, and as it continued to wear, the "cut" wore away...it didn't continue down to the bottom of the cord. -------------------------------- > Good traction, but makes the bike stand up. After just comimg back from a great weekend at Laguna Seca taking Reg Pridmores CLASS school I'd like to comment on this standing up problem. Every tire combo I've tried until now has stood up from a minor to a major amount. The lady at the shop I deal with ordered the new set of Azaro's as requested but ordered the wrong sizes! It was too late for anything else so I went with the 120/60 & 170/60 that came in and I can't begin to tell you the difference in handling they made.They replaced a 120/70-180/55 set that were good but weren't even close in the neutral handling dept. & in the few times that I did have to brake in the middle of a turn, I never had to fight with the bike trying to stand up! Maybe Yamaha new something when they put a 170 on the rear and a 60 series on the front! Ya think!!!!!!! Bob Taylor ------------------------------------- Yup--I've gotta throw my $.02 worth in on the pile. I had a set of BT-50's (factory sizes, street compounds), carefully balanced, and all the other happy stuff we've determined was critical. The front-end wobble was absolutely terrible, no matter what I tried. Once the rear wore out, I had fun sending it to tire heaven in a huge smoky burnout until the tire blew out. (previous posting) Anyway, I wanted to thank Kevin et. al. for recommending the 180/55 rear 120/70 front combination in the BT-57. No hint of wobble at all--gone--nada--zip--zilch. My mechanic did a real number balancing the front--static and dynamic at various speeds (up to 200 mph.) and he also experimented around with weights on one side of the rim vs. both--ended up with weights on both sides--gave the best balance for static and dynamic at various speeds. As far as the size changes, it's going to take some getting used to, but so far I think I like it. The front end feels much lighter, but the rear is hooked up a little more than I'm used to--it feels a little sluggish at times. I was getting used to sliding the 170 around a little, but the 180 is stuck like glue. Like I said--will take some getting used to. I'm going to experiment around in S.E. AZ this weekend scouting for the winter trip . . . we'll see how they do. Terry Baker